Comparison: 2011 Hyundai Sonata SE 2.0T vs 2012 Toyota Camry SE V-6 vs 2012 Volkswagen Passat VR6 SEL

the current Passat has nothing to do with the old one. People are claiming the old Passat was a POS (no proof is being offered) and thus MT should rank this one lower. That is nonsense. We know NOTHING about the reliability of the new Passat and whose to say reliability should be the #1 factor? Cars have warranties for a reason and some folks lease cars and thus could care less about 100k mile durability. This is NOT a ranking of potential reliability or maintenance costs. In fact, none of the major magazines/sites take reliability into account when ranking cars. Think people, how many years has Camry been number 1?  How many years has Toyota made reliable cars in every category, and the reverse, VW made unreliable cars in every category?

Now we are to believe a first year transplant, made in America car that is dumbed down for America, with an older technology engine that is not even sold in other VWs much longer, and is imported to America not even built here, and then inserted into the VW, is better than a homegrown entirely made in America Camry.

Let me tell you, every time that oxygen sensor light comes on, every time the rattles in the dashboard drive you nuts, every time the heater coil breaks in zero degree temperature and radiator coolant leaks, and every time you realize no corner Good Year or Firestone is able or willing to touch this low tech VW, you would hate the moment you made a decision to purchase it.

To compare a VW Passat in any trim to a Camry and proclaim it a better car in  its first year, is the height of irresponsibility

Just FYI for those complaining about the price difference for Sonata...

As someone already mentioned, the trim level tested does not have Navi or leather interior for beginners. Who knows? Maybe this was way of Hyundai saying "Hey, at least we're selling it cheap!" You don't compare Hyundai to VW. It is only a matter of time before Hyundai is exposed for their style over substance approach.

BD,

I don't know what you mean by the VW was slowest BY FAR in all the other tests. Hm, let's see. It lost from 0-30 and 0-40 but then the Camry starts losing ground and is overall beat by the VW in the quarter mile but we'll say it was basically a tie.  Then we check everything else. Figure 8, lateral gs and breaking is one pretty easily by the V dub. after all the stats which show the Passat fastest not just in a straight line (call it a tie fine) but around the bends (this time definitely  beating both competitors) we look at the road test.  It didn't sound to me like MT had any trouble deciding who won in everything in that test.  Ride comfort, refinement, enjoyment to drive, quality, everything.   And the interior is by far better especially compared to the clearly cheap toyota's.  So you put that all together with VW's new rep for quality and Toyota's new rep of not-so-great quality then you understand the price difference.  You pay for a better car and its worth it compared to outdated cheap and bring

"Toyota isn't losing sleep over Passat.  They may not even know it's been redesigned....."

Hopefully they'll sleep right up until the end.

BD,

Quote from the article

Away from the test track, the Passat VR6 didn't lose any luster. Over our 30-mile drive loop, we scored it the highest in ride, road feel, refinement, and roominess.

BD,

What part of "fun to drive" don't you understand? This has been a factor in all 3 comparisons.

@GT-keith

Which is why I really think they should consider using an Optima next time. I also recently spent time in a rental Sonata (445 miles in 7 days), as well as a rental Optima (1463 miles in 11 days) and the Optima was a better experience all around. I didn't have any violent shaking issues in the Sonata (and it had almost 30,000 on the odo), but it still didn't provide as good of an experience.

Congratulations to Volkswagen for listening to the public and taking a huge risk in building a car that was sure to alienate some longtime VW buyers but might turn out to be a hit with the general public.

And kudos to Motor trend for putting the Passat in this comparison in the first place, and having the guts to call it like they see it.

Seems the ringers Hyundai likes to throw at comparisons didn't make it to this one. That is why we see these times and the true driving dynamics, or should I say lack there of, and near bottom FE.

Poor fanboys can't accept the truth. Which is, Hyundai, and their cheerleaders over hype the products.

First of all, these times appear to be from automatics and the Pasat and Camry put up some super impressive straight line times.  I think that Camry has the superior engine but VW has the superior transmission.  If a Camry handled anything close to a VW, it would be my choice of the bunch given Toyota's well-deserved reputation for reliability.  Then again, if you drive a VW, they are easy to fall in love with.  How else could VW still be in business with all of the reliability gremlins they have had with virtually every car after the original, rock-solid reliability Beetle.

I think what is lost is how unimpressive the 2.0T from Hyundai is.  I think MT was overly kind on the handling dynamics of the 2.0T.  It has the WORST handling feel of any car in this segment.  If anything, the 2.0T throws of the balance of the car and makes an already suspect handling car have a handling feel that is like driving a poor handling bumper car.

VR
Just point out the multiple errors and hypocrisy

Fortunately, few people are dumb enough to buy a VW as a daily driver, so if VW sells 125k next year, especially after the new Malibu, Altima and Accord have their say, they should throw some type of over-the-top celebration.

Toyota isn't losing sleep over Passat.  They may not even know it's been redesigned.....
BD

@BD

If there's a bigger wiener out there, I've yet to meet him. All you do is complain.

Hey, did you hear that VW is going to be the largest automaker by the end of the year? Yup, you heard right. Toyota dropped behind VW AND GM this year. They're boring, and as MotorTrend noted in this comparison test, the Camry isn't as awesome as it used to be.

It's funny, all the negativity about VW reliability. Give me a break. You're all just pissed that this "inferior" car has bested the untouchable Camry.

I don't get what MT's obsession with the Hyundai Sonata is for all their comparisons, especially when they can't even bother to get a fully loaded one that competes more directly with the Passat they used.

You'd think they'd just use the Kia Optima they have in their long term fleet. It's fully loaded, turbocharged, and the general consensus among auto journalists is that it's a better car than the Sonata anyway. The fact that they get subpar 0-60 times in either vehicle seems to only be a problem they have. Something strange is going on here. I actually like the new Passat and Camry, but it seems MT is not going all in with their third player.

JeremyJames86 - Today 10:54 AM

I agree with everyone on the west coast waking up 4 hours after New Jersey.

$33K you get get a lot better rides than a veedub:
- Infiniti G Sedan
- Cadillac CTS Sport Sedan
- Lexus ES350

well... fella, you'd end up with a stripped one.

Had to point out a clear error in the article:

"Add that to its being the quickest and most fun to drive, and you have is a sedan unmatched in its class."

Clearly, the Camry matched it in speed.  It beat the Passat to 30 MPH, and to 100MPH, and matched it in the quarter, so Passat cannot be considered  "unmatched" if the Camry ran with the more expensive car step-for-step.

The Passat IS unmatched in price, efficiency, and value.  The Camry and Sonata had better MPG at much lower costs, presenting much better values to the consumer.......
BD

Who is impressed by a car $6-8k more expensive only matching the best performance, and losing in MPG?

Is value a factor or not (Again, we are talking about family sedans)?  Isn't that what a family is looking for in a V6 family sedan?  Is THAT the car they would choose?  Is THAT the car you would recommend?

Oh........
BD

@jeremy:

The cars you mentioned start around $37k and the CTS has 270ho for that amount. While you can get some luxury models in the $33k range- they wont be loaded and they wont have 280hp. The Passat is loaded for that amount of money.

How come people have trouble understanding that MT cannot always get the exact model they want? All the mags complain about this when staging comparos. You have to take what is available from the manufacturers. I also dont get all the comments saying "how can a VW Passat be ranked over a Camry?". What rule sales a VW cant beat a Toyota? If the Passat was the most impressive in this trio than it should be ranked #1.

Agreed with Church123

It's like MT went to the same deceptive marketing seminar as GM did.

It is clear now that the Camry is the true winner of all 3 comparos.

1. Base Model test:  Camry outperformed all
2. Hybrid/Diesel MPG:  Camry wins again
3. Performance:  Camry is on par with Passat for less and is the most efficient

I like how MT selectively mentions items only when the Passat is better.  Like figure-8 times.  When the Passat was better it gets top billing, but when the Camry (in hybrid trim) was quicker around the figure-8, not a mention anywhere.

Or how an entry level, everyman's Camry gets compared to Passat SE and is criticized for having too soft a ride and not enough grip (M+S tires vs. summer tires on the Passat), then the Camry SE (sport package for intenders) is cricized for being too stiff.

And of course, no mention that the Passat V6 is dramatically more expensive and less fuel efficient than the Camry.

Don't get me wrong, if I'm looking at a top of the line V6 sedan, a mpg or two deficit isn't going to be as important to me as some of the other things the Passat has going for it.  Of these three comparisons, the Passat winning the V6 category makes the most sense to me.  But after your selective memory on the first two tests where the Camry was superior you're going to get called out for your inconsistency

I agree with everyone on the west coast waking up 4 hours after New Jersey.

$33K you get get a lot better rides than a veedub:
- Infiniti G Sedan
- Cadillac CTS Sport Sedan
- Lexus ES350

I didn't even bother reading this one.
I know who's pocket MT is in now.......

Passat is only $6-8k more expensive.
A hell of a value for a family sedan!
BD

Obviously Hyundai is over estimating their 0-60 and horsepower ratings to trick people into buying their product. False Advertising, just like the review articles from motor magazines/journalists.

I've driven a rental sonata. Its kinda of rough when accelerating driving and braking. Interior is not as refined either. Now that the sonata have had some real world testing. The flaws are being reported from the consumers.

Gotta love the "VW isn't reliable" slander from all the Toyota fans. That VR6 is a killer engine, just as reliable as the other two in this test. I'm surprised the article didn't mention how glorious the exhaust note is.

I'm shocked at how slow the 2.0T is. But then again, it's not the engine's fault. The Sonata is geared for optimal fuel economy (35mpg highway). Drop in some premium fuel and give it some better gear ratios and this would be a much quicker car. I'd love to see Hyundai/Kia give this engine a chance in a different car purpose-built for speed.

@benff:

Mags often cannot get press cars equipped EXACTLY as they want. This is nothing new. They have to use the press cars provided. I dont think this comparo was based on features. Sonata is a nice car, but its competition has been refreshed. Everyone is in such awe of Hyundai that now people get mad if a Hyundai isnt seen as the benchmark in any given category. Sonata is now 3rd oldest midsizer on the market and after Malibu comes out it will be 4th oldest. Its hard to stay on top when your competition is so determined.

Short article for a 3 Car Comparison...

Until VW fixes it's issues (and stops under styling), I won't be buying one.

Hyundai must be overrating their mpg and horsepower numbers lately.  The real world data proves it.  Even the old 2006 Sonata V6 with only 235 hp posted 0-60 in 6.8 seconds and weighed 200 pounds more.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0512_family_sedan_comparison/specs_prices.html

These last few VW articles have hindered Hyundai significantly (as well as Toyota).  I am seeing much better numbers in every other site (usually averaging low 6s for the 2.0t). MT, I am loosing faith in you, this seems to blatant of a VW advertisement.  Nothing wrong with the VW, but in the past three articles, it's a bit much.  

I call shenanigans!

View the original article here

Comparison: 2011 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid vs 2012 Toyota Camry Hybrid XLE vs. 2012 Volkswagen Passat TDI SE

I generally like MT articles and their knowledge but feel there must be a mistake here. I test drove a sonata hybrid (it was a manager's special car with 800 miles on the odo) and the car was a dealership car which had returned from a 100 mile trip. The trip computer on the dash (it was the base version) said 40.6 mpg average and the manager looked heavy-set and far from being a hypermiling kind of guy.

"To the poster who said Hyundai interiors were plasticky". I found them personally to be on par or better than my Lexus and the gauges, materials were first rate, more often seen on 35K plus cars.

I would really want MT to retest a different Sonata hybrid because the numbers do not seem accurate from other road tests I have read (or) my personal experience at the dealership??

For example 123autocanada got 37mpg on a lead foot

http://www.auto123.com/en/news/car-news/past-topics/sonata-hybrid?topic=sonata+hybrid

@suparag9

If all you (and MT) care about are the feelings of the drive then you (and MT) are not qualified to comment about these cars.  Let's face it, all these cars ARE "appliances."  

The Camry though, is the proven reliable appliance.

a couple of points:
1. diesel stinkiness refers to your hands when you refuel it, the exhaust is pretty clean.

2. Toyota HSD hybrid tech is as reliable as possible for a car to get.. no belts, no clutches, no transmission, no starter, no alternator, no water pump, no turbo and no direct fuel injection.. and its very likely the brake pads will last 100k miles. The Hyundai tech is new and unproven.. VW TDI reliability and maintenance issues are scary after 5 years, these new diesels (2005-present) are very complicated and have expensive maintenance.. fuel quality is extremely critical with the common rail high pressure fuel pumps.

@Inyurahsya,

VW won because it is a "Car" and for the driver, it is a pleasure to "drive" it.

Camry did not win because it is an "appliance" and for the driver, if he/she is awake, try to avoid the boredom with some tunes..

@lions208487, I guess you have never driven newer VW's and seems your opinions are based on cars more than two decades ago.

I drive a 2006 VW Jetta TDI with 186K miles, I have not had any oil leaks, or oil sludge. As far as you put in oil that meets VW specs, you have no issues. At 50K miles the diesel engines are just breaking in.

I wanted to hear this many "feelings", I'd watch the next episode of "The View".
MT's testosterone is a quart low.  And it's mascara is running.

Tell me how it "feels" when the VW's check engine light comes on next week....
BD

I would prefer to wait for the new Altima and Fusion Hybrid before a true comparison test can be made. However, even though Toyota is not my preference by any means, the Camry obviously is the true winner here.

As syj states, it's not all about 0-60 and MPG, but the Camry dominated in both so that deserve recognition. Since Fuel economy is the primary purpose for a hybrid, the Camry wins. Interior and exterior appearence is in the eye of the buyer, I personally would take the Camry over the VW. Despite Toyota's recall issues in the prior two years, they still make a much more reliable car than any VW product period. Intake valve, oil sludge, oil leaks tend to become a common problems with VW's after 50K miles. C/R and JDP consistantly list VW's issues with every years reliability test, and VW is always near the bottom. That alone is reason to go for the Hyundai or Toyota.

"church
That beats Haley's Comet
BD"

Oh, I show up a little more often than that.  But when I do, I'm right.  Try again :P

Round 1: Base Model
"In terms of power, interior space, useability, and fuel economy, the Camry's the best here."  But the Passat is better because it felt better and won.

Round 2: Hybrids/Diesel(MPG)
The camry got 36.9 MPG; the Passat got 34.3 but is better because it felt better and won.

Let me guess...
Round 3: "High Octane" versions
The Camry and Sonata whooped the Passat but the Passat is better because it felt better and won.

Why even have these tests?

Adamlink
I forgot, you do everything someone tells you.  You fall for every line
You definitely are the bend-over-and-take-it type......

You didn't read the article, just the final paragraph
But having someone read it for you kind of proves the point.....
BD

All kidding aside, and the fanboyism, I think some people here are misunderstanding what MT was trying to do in this comparison.

This comparison was not purely about gas mileage.  If it was, the Focus SFE would have been included, because it gets 40 MPG on the highway.  (Or the Fusion hybrid, etc.)  It also wasn't meant to be a comparison of ALL the midsize contenders out there . . . because it just isn't practical to test 15 vehicles!

They took the current bestseller (the Camry), the hot newcomer (the Sonata), and a recently redesigned oldtimer, and tried to find out which was the best CAR . . . overall.  Price, value, economy, handling, quality, etc.  

MT praised each of these cars for their various attributes and criticized each one, as well.  I think they were pretty fair.  In the end it wasn't like one car was a total turd and the others were made of gold . . . each car did very well.  Can you please everybody?  Don't think so.

As a VW fan I'm just glad we were invited to the party this year.  

Sorry, Gatt!

(You should try being a Redskins fan.)

BD,

Please do not spill your pollution over to MotorTrend. Keep it to the hot heads and children on Autoblog and LeftLaneNews. We actually enjoy real conversation on this site.

To Black Dynamite and all the others on the Toyota payroll . . .

You're absolutely right.  The Camry actually won these two comparisons.

And the Redskins actually beat the Carolina Panthers this past Sunday.  The scoreboard must have been wrong.

A couple of misconceptions.  1.  VW does have hybrid technology.  In the next few years you will see both hybrid gas vehicles and hybrid diesel vehicles here in the U.S.

2.  VW didn't go with diesel because it didn't have hybrid technology.  They went with diesel because first, it was proven, second, it has fewer maintenance issues when compared to hybrid, third, it's familiar and widely available, and fourth, when synthetic diesel is developed to its full potential, diesel will cost far LESS than gasoline.

3.  Where I live the price of diesel varies throughout the year.  The most I've seen it is about 20 cents more than gas . . . but I've also seen it 10 cents LESS than gas, depending on the season and availability.

The TDI is not "smelly."  You can stand right by the tailpipe while it's running and not smell a thing.  

You won't see any diesel residue left around the tailpipe on the bumper, either.  In fact, you can run your finger around the inside of the tailpipe and you won't be able to pick up anything.

The TDi is actually cleaner than gasoline in certain particulates, and won the "Green Car of the Year" award when it first came out.

@ pmirp1

If they were comparing hybrids, the TDI would not have been invited and the Camry would likely win.  The Camry's acceleration times are faster than a number of yesteryear's V6s, which is quite impressive.

Then again, there is more to a car than 0-60 and mileage.  To enthusiasts, things like interior comfort, handling, driving dynamics, and plastic texturing are more important than to the average driver.  The Camry appeals to the average driver.  VWs tend to appeal more to enthusiasts, although that is changing a bit.  Based on early reviews, VW seems to have a particularly sweet spot with the Pasat, even if it does have an ugly grille.

There is also the point that hybrids are not the be all and end all to mileage, although it is hard to argue against their superiority in city and stop and go driving.  However, a larger percentage of people drive on highways in most of the country as opposed to 90+% city driving (which is what I do).  The Pasat seems to be the best overall car here.

@blackdynamiteNYC

Camry - 2 wins
Passat and Sonata - 0.0

well said my friend.  WELL SAID

i only add, Ron Kino doesn't know what he is talking about

When the stars are all in alignment, Church123 shows a small, tiny bit of wisdom.

Camry - 2 wins
Passat and Sonata - 0.0
BD

I've driven this sonata and it is not well put together. The interior has left over bits of plastic in it. Lots of hard plastic panels. The engine is rough. The transmission hesitates at 2nd/3rd gear. Maybe if it had a v6 it'll be better.

I haven't driven the new Toyota so i cant comment on that. I have driven the 2010 model. Its pretty smooth. Reminds me of a Lexus ES.

@himoses
The MotorTrend article seems to be only focused on interstate driving.  I mean how many people only drive their cars on the interstate other than editors of MT that have nothing better to do?  

To 99% of population, driving efficiency in the city is what matters.

Why does Motor Trend not state how much better the braking for the Camry has become?  Remember the regenerative braking is a weak spot for all hybrids and now Camry has improved it.

Also, while most observers admit the dual clutch transmission for VW TDI has hesitation tendencies and there are many articles about it on the web, Motor Trend does not say a thing about all those issues.

Motor Trend clearly does not want to go where it should, which is lack of hybrid technology for VW.  VW knows hybridization is expensive, so it leaves that technology for Porsche and expensive SUVs.

Camry gives that technology at its best to masses.
Power to the people, Camry wins outright.

I agree including a Fusion would have been more appropriate for t

As odious as I find it to agree with blackdynamite, he's correct here.

Around town the VW may feel peppy, but out on the highway, the Camry thoroughly crushes it in acceleration - almost 2 seconds faster from 60-80 mph.  That's a huge difference in passing power.

And in that aforementioned around town driving, I'll bet the Camry nearly doubles the Passat's fuel economy, never mind that in the US, 87 octane gas is some 10% cheaper than diesel these days.

And while I can believe that the Passat is more engaging to drive vs. the HSD CVT setup in the Camry and its disconnection between throttle and gas engine operation, if you're looking for a fuel sipper in this class, such engagement is not your top priority.  And in the end, the Camry did beat the Passat around the figure-8 despite narrower, low rolling resistance tires so it isn't like it's slow in the cut and thrust of the real world.

And in the extra passenger room in the Camry, and world class reliability and I think the Camry has to win this class.

@ pmirp1

Have you driven a TDI?  They are hardly smelly.  The comparison was for mileage so diesel belongs as an alternative to a hybrid.  When it comes to city driving, diesels can't touch hybrids.

I would have liked to see the Fusion hybrid thrown in the mix since it has been the best midsize hybrid for the past two model years.

I guess that didn't have the Fusion Hybrid on hand because its not a "new" model like the trio at hand. Perhaps they are waiting for the New Malibu e-Assist/Fusion Hybrid match up next year.

What a shame about the Sonata Hybrid. It shows that as fast as Hyundai has been cranking out models, something was bound to be a screw up. I'm not a Toyota fan by ANY means but I have to give them credit. The Camry is still a contender..even though its still ho hum!

Why compare a Diesel to hybrids?  What logic is there for that?  Other than the fact that Diesels get good gas mileage.

A Diesel has very natural driving tendencies, and does not have to deal with dual technologies that are balanced in a hybrid.  The Diesel does not have a CVT so of-course it feels better and sounds better to drive.

Still, the Camry is easily much faster, more fuel efficient by EPA standards (remember hybrid comes to light in city where most of us drive) and it is made by a company that has tremendous reliability.  

Again this comparison just makes no sense, but by most objective criteria, the Camry wins.   Case closed.

Now throw that smelly Diesel back in the sea or to Europe, where it needs to stay.  America has no infrastructure for Diesel, as the last gas shortages showed.  Do not be fooled

"A salesman at a dealer said they pulled of 700+ miles on one tank. Most of the mpg was achieved on cruise"

A salesperson at a dealer said something highly optimistic about the cars they are selling?  Alert the press!

The low real world MPG is an ongoing this for Hyundai.  This isn't the first time one has underperformed when it comes to MPG.  Sure MT has a heavy foot, but you can't think they were babying the Camry and Passat while just flogging the heck out of the Sonata to produce that result.

@Inyurahsya

Come on man the camry beat it by what 2 mpg in the test. Really is that enough for me to run around with a car that a much lesser drive overall NO!!!!. The Camry did great in this test but its not soooo great that it would win. In a test done by CR it would have one because driving experience doesn't matter to consumer report, but this is motor trend.

Now I could understand if it lost to the hyundai in this test. Now that would be something to be upset about.

Shut up UpstateBD,

VW won.

*** crap lost.

Again, the Camry lost due to driving dynamics when they are testing MPG.  Why did they test the XLE against the TDI SE, WTF?

It's funny how MT calls the Passat 43MPG on highway and yet refers to the Camry LE Hybrid as 41 combined as if to dumb tn down a little.  Way to twist the truth, MT.

@ BlackDynamiteNYC

Get over it. The Passat is better than the Camry.

VRsicks

@slu1979- Cleary you didn't read that they said it a much worse drive the passat all around. I mean come on you thought they'd prefer to drive a CVT over a 6 speed dct. LOL

Anyways the only vehcile missingh was the fusion hybrid even though people are screaming conspiracy about the passat's performance. I can only wonder why the passat is winning in comparisons on other publications too? I guess VW much be paying off everyone.. LOL

Why did they use the Camry XLE, but not the same trim in the Passat (SEL)?  The Camry LE actually gets ANOTHER 2 MPG better than the XLE!  

So IF MT wanted to do this on the square, they would test the right car, or add two MPG and subtract $1500 for the Camry.

So an LE Camry Hybrid would get approx.  38.9 MPG and cost $15 more than the Sonata, and cost $205 LESS than the Passat.

PLUS factor in the penalty for diesel gas.

PLUS this is obviously a highway test, and plays to the diesel's strength, and the diesel still got beat.  If this was equal parts city and highway, it would have been even more of a blowout!

Again, MT strains to find  problem with the Camry to negate it's clearly superior performance, and fails miserably......again.

MT screwed the pooch on back-to-back tests?  WOW!

MT doesn't think much of their reader if they can't expect you to see through this TWICE!

MT, for shame........
BD

Hard to pick a winner between the three biggest sponsors of any automag out there, huh?

Luckily the hideous entry placed last, followed by the kind of hideous and very boring entry, right behind the most boring car in the world.

View the original article here

Comparison: 2012 Hyundai Sonata GLS vs. 2012 Toyota Camry LE vs. 2012 Volkswagen Passat SE

What I don't understand is how the Sonata, with the most HP and best power to weight ratio, is not faster than the Camry. As well as this, it got by far the worst mileage out of the three, when it should have been closer to the Camry's, if the EPA ratings were accurate. All of Hyundai's new cars seem this way too. They all look the best on paper, but don't work out to real world results. I would never buy a Camry, under any circumstances.  It's just not a good car, in my opinion.

Having said that, nothing in this segment is a Ferrari or a Porsche.  What people want in a midsize is, apparently, an appliance with a little-- just a little-- zing.  I have to give kudos to Hyundai for trying to provide just that.  I think that's why it's polling at #1.  The Passat is also offering a little extra zing with its European style and German handling.  That's why it's #2.  The Camry is pure appliance.  You don't stand in front of your refrigerator and admire it.  You only want it to keep stuff cold.

I thought it was a good and well laid out article.  The Pasat is a nice car.  It looks sharp and the I5 gets dumped on a lot, but it isn't too bad.  The 6-spd Shiftronic is an excellent transmission.  The Pasat has the same power train in my Jetta, is bigger, and is lighter...a good combination.  VW knows how to make their cars fun to drive.

I was kind of surprised to see how much the Camry outperformed the Sonata when comparing automatic to automatic.  If I were to buy a car in this comparison, it would be the Camry or the Sonata.  I have driven the Sonata several times in multiple trim levels and the turbo, and it is an excellent car.  However, its steering feel is bad, but not as bad as last generation's Camry (unless you are talking about the turbo which is even worse).  Also, the seats, while initially comfortable, are too wide and flat to get comfortable for a nice long drive.  Ingress and egress is slighly more difficult, but nothing noticeable.

BD, it's nothing in comparison to the pile of cash you've amassed being wrong.  So far I haven't heard you say one thing that wasn't straight out of the Toyota playbook.

What dealership do you work at?

"Ocellaris..stop living in the past, this is not the early 2000s. VW's quality numbers still lag behind those of Toyota and Hyundai."

People confuse initial quality with long term quality.  I would not argue that VW trails Hyundai in initial quality, however my concern is what happens to the Hyundais 5+ years down the road.

Very few people drive an "old" Hyundai because they didn't last.  I live in the Northeast and less than a decade ago, the roads were positively bursting with people buying new Hyundais they got on the cheap.  There are a few volume Hyundai dealers in the area and they didn't have trouble selling them.  If you look around now, there are still a ton of early 2000s VW on the road and all of the Hyundais are gone and dead.  If you do see one, bumpers are hanging off, the paint is fading and peeling, and the interior is trashed.  People just presume these new Hyundais will last a long time because they look good, and people equate looks with quality.

BD, you're in denial.  The Passat didn't lose this comparison.  It won.  Admit it.

You're also in sales and you work for Toyota.  I'll bet you money on it.

Jetta has lucked out, with the tsunami slowing down Corolla and Civic.  Many companies have benefitted from an Act of God, handicapping the two leaders.  Chevy Cruze as well is a big winner, but it got help.

It's early!  Calm down!  After all the dust has settled, VW will be the bottom-feeders we all know and ignore.

(No matter how hard MT works to get them over.....and this was a work!)

Sonata is a full-size car in EPA, Camry and Passat are midsized.  You need to study....
BD

@BD:

you are such a shill that you dont even understand how success is measured. In the US Toyota is FAR bigger than VW. The fact that VW is now selling 13-15k Jettas a month is a huge win for VW considering their size in this market. Its about marketshare trends- Jetta's is way up and Corollas is down. VW doesnt have the production capacity on lineup size to compete with Toyota in total sales in the US. They dont even make trucks which automatically keeps them on a lower tier in terms of US sales. And BTW, the Jetta has been running at about 75% of the sales of the class leaders in 2011, not 50% of their sales. Remember, Corolla and civic have fallen off big time and Cruze has been averaging around 20k units a month for the last few months. Also, aside from the Fusion and Malibu we dont have confirmation that any new midsizers debut in 2012. Its speculation that a new accord might show up- has not been confirmed. How did the Passat lose in roominess? what review are YOU reading?

syj
Jetta will sell 150k, which is not a failure, or a success.  The top sellers double that.  Jetta just looks like, and drives like, a failure.  Ask anyone who drove the last one.  Car & Driver couldn't rag on it more.  Last in their 5 car comparison.

Passat will be last starting next year, when the other cars are redesigned.

This car was beaten by BOTH the Camry and Sonata.  Very shady decision by MT.  It lost in price, power, efficiency, roominess, value, speed, etc.  It won handling.  

That's good enough for 3rd, not 1st place.  Admit it.
BD

@BD:

There wasnt even a 2011 passat- one reason "no one" cared about it. People will care about this one. Im sure if people went back and read your comments about the Jetta you probably repeated all the same trollish nonsense and predicted it would fail. Its been selling like hotcakes. And as others have noted, Toyota is a bit player in Europe and far behind VW and GM in china. Toyota does well in Japan and in the US. VW will outsell Toyota this year globally, they are not to be taken lightly.

@techie

MT doesnt rate cars by reliability- never have.

You never answered the question.  Do you work for Toyota?

Plenty of people care about the Passat here, and for good reason.  It's a great car.

Like so many Toyota worshippers, you used sales numbers to try to justify the Camry's greatness.  But, as usual, when presented with evidence of the Passat outselling the Camry, suddenly you don't care about sales figures.

Adam
Why would I give a monkey's hairy sac about what happens in Europe?

HERE, nobody cares about Passat, and with good reason......
BD

BD, do you work for Toyota?

VW outsells Toyota in Europe by a huge margin.  (The only company that comes close to VW sales in Europe is Ford.)  The Golf sold almost 500,000 units in Europe-- more than double what Camry sold in the U.S.  In Europe, the Passat is in the Top 10.  The Camry isn't in the Top 50.

If numbers tell the story let's look at ALL the numbers, not just the ones that favor Toyota.

Adam
Are you trying to set a record for biggest reach?

VW is not comparable to Toyota in quality.  Hasn't been for DECADES.  This ain't 1963.  

This car will sell 1/3 of Camry next year.  Why?  Because people assume it is made like crap.  It's earned that much respect......
BD

"Sonata is legitimate competition to Camry.  Passat not so much.......  

...
3.  And VW's crap-tastic quality rep will be a blow from which it will never recover."

How do people keep bashing on VW quality while forgetting that just a few years ago, Hyundai was making JUNK cars for sale in the state.  In northern states it is rare to see ANY Hyundai on the road more than 6 or 7 years old because they all rusted out and fell apart.  

VW had a bad quality run with MKIV Jettas in the early 2000s (along with some other issues), however its been fairly solid since then.  Meanwhile Hyundai was selling complete trash across their entire lineup in the early 2000s and now they get a free pass on reliability?!?

"Toyota has been building reliable cars for about 25 years
Hyundai?  About 5 years
VW hasn't even started yet......."

VW has been building reliable cars for about 80 years.  During a timespan that long you're bound to have a few ups and downs along the way.

Like Toyota.  Did you know their quality got so bad at one point they actually left the U.S. market for an entire year?  

Can't say that about VW.

"You do know that they tested a Camry with less responsive smaller wheels, right?"

The Camry comes with smaller, less responsive wheels because that is the way Toyota chooses to equip it.  Don't blame MT.  Blame Toyota.

@chiguy:

Exactly- and when will these folks realize that MT does NOT rank cars in reliability? This is obvious. the majority of the fanboys are saying "the Camry may not be a better car in this test, but the VW will break down so the camry should've won". What? MT isnt in the business of predicting reliability of new cars. IN fact, CR doesnt even rate cars based on reliability. They give them a road test score and then if the car scores high enough its recommended if the reliability is there. They do NOT base their scores on predicted reliability though.

The Passat wins again!

The VW haters must be foaming at the mouth . . .

@ ChiGuy, Here you go.

"In terms of power, interior space, useability, and fuel economy, the Camry's the best here,"

You do know that they tested a Camry with less responsive smaller wheels, right?

As soon as I saw a Camry in this test, I knew the usual shills for Toyota would be chiming in. I am of course referring to Jimmy and Black Dynamite. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid and I hope you're comfy under the bridge.

For them and the others wondering why their beloved Camry didn't win, read the quote from the article.

Let's just say the Camry returned some middling scores in a few key areas. First, we were unimpressed with its "architectural statement" styling, whose elements lacked cohesion and had an overall look too similar to that of its predecessor. Next, the soft suspension, while great for road trips, was not terribly assuring over the handling loop. "In the tighter sections of our drive, the Camry was not confidence-inspiring," declared Kong. Last, for $23,260 to start, the Toyota omitted such standard niceties as alloy wheels, which were included in our as-tested $22,405 Hyundai as well as a $23,460 Passat S with Appearance Package (our $25,595 SL came with larger 17-inch alloys)

BTW, what is the point of 5 cylinders, if it's less powerful, and less efficient, than 4-cylinders?

Motor Trend didn't justify a Passat victory at all!  
It lost in every way.  Efficiency, power, speed, price, value,  etc.....
BD

Syj says

"Your ignorance is astounding. You should really stop posting.
1. VW's sales are up because they are following the Toyota/Honda philophy- worry about value and inoffensive styling instead of plush interiors and lux features."

You be happy to know i considered your suggestion and decided to continue to post.  I can't stop posting & let your misrepresent facts & cloud smart people's judgment.

Accord and Camry lost market share this year because of the natural event and shortage of parts.  They also have lost some market share because of improvements in Sonata and Optima.  Has nothing to do with VW Passat which was just re-designed.

Luxury features of a VW? you got to be kidding.  Feel the interior of Jeta.  Checkout the engine of a VW.  Camry brought a six speed automatic to market as soon as GM and Ford forced its hands and also Sonata and Optima.  It has a great engine, as good a V4 as an Accord.  To me those are still the best V4s.  No they don't have DI but not needed

1. Passat - Questionable engineering and the styling of a bar of Dove soap. Pass
2. Toyota Camry - Well rounded, reliable, built for the sheep of the driving world. Pass
3. Sonata - Hyudai's rising star looks the part but doesn't have the performance to back it up. Pass

Well it's nice to know that I can still avoid these cars and wont be missing anything. NEXT!

So many euro fanbois :\

Regardless, the Sonata is the one winning.  Just look outside at a street corner near you.  Forget this review.

@pmirp:

Your ignorance is astounding. You should really stop posting.
1. VW's sales are up because they are following the Toyota/Honda philophy- worry about value and inoffensive styling instead of plush interiors and lux features.
2. Even CR notes VWs reliability has improved
3. VWs recent models (Jetta and CC) have been successful so there is no reason to doubt the Passat
4. Camry and Accord have lost significant share over the last few years and even CR doesnt rate either sedan as best in class.
5. Toyota doesnt use state of art powertrains in anything not called Lexus. The Camrys engine is basically the same one its had for years. At least the Sonata has direct injection.

Camry got over 34 MPG during their test?
Nice!

I guess that's why it's The People's Champion!
BD

Consider this: for less money than this Passat, you could buy a Sonata SE 2.0T ($25,405) or a Camry XLE ($25,485). Both come with far more options / amentities than the Passat tested here.

MT, if you're going to do a comparison test, please bring comparable vehicle.

Old people buy the Camry.

The younger, hip generation buys the Passat. Many people are willing to compromise a few mpg in order to have a more comfortable, better feeling car.

MotorTrend, how about doing a hard-core reliability test? Take a few different cars/engines and put them through some extreme (Top Gear-esque) testing to find out just how reliable/durable these cars are. I'd love to see VW's 2.5L and 2.0T dispell the myth that VW's aren't reliable.

Syj says:
"Wake up, VW is on the rise. Not everyone buys cars based on CR rankings even if you chose to do so. VWs sales are way up and the PAssat will sell. "

Syj, on what planet do you live on?  People who buy mid-size cars review CR because reliability matters.  They don't want cars in the shop constantly.  Until VW improves that, they stand no chance.  

Their sales increased, because of price reductions to make their cars more competitive with Camry and Koreans.  In process they have moved away from attributes that they have pushed for years (performance of their 2.0 turbo and quality materials).  Now they got nothing left.  

I admit Passat is a competitive product from quality of interior and design, but not so much from a engine perspective.  Until they invest in modern engine technology like Camry and Koreans, they stand zero chance.  And until they improve quality year over year, they will come in last.

Now go study some more about virtues that sell mid-size family cars in US before posting

FullMonte:
I agree with you about the lack of colour imagination currently expressed by most manufacturers.  One of the cars I recently looked at came in only six flavours: black, white, red, and what amounts to three shades of grey: silver, light grey, and dark grey. Kinda boring.

Maybe if Fiat is successful in the U.S., we'll start seeing a more diverse colour pallete. While I have no interest in buying a Fiat 500, it does come in over a dozen colours, including cappucino and some of the others you mentioned.

Sonata is legitimate competition to Camry.  Passat not so much.......  

1.  The average buyer won't weight the test drive heavily on handling.  
2.  The Passats 22/31, with less 8 fewer HP than Camry will hurt the sales pitch.
3.  And VW's crap-tastic quality rep will be a blow from which it will never recover.  

It's pretty obvious that Camry was the better car, but MT wanted something else to win.  Using the "If you squint, you can see an A8" is pretty desperate.  Good luck with that!

Speed, economy, reputation, roomy, lightweight
Toyota Camry still reigns as The People's Champion.  
BD

@ Mirage1987

It isn't the Germans fault they make superior vehicles, the others need to step their games up. Of these 3, the VW is the only one I'd even consider getting, just because it's German made which equals engineering superiority and it looks great (relatively).

@supervette:

Sonata has consistently been in the 8 sec range in 0-60. It doesnt perform as well as expected considering its power to weight ratio. Fastest time I've seen is 7.8s. Its barely faster than the Verano which weighs more and packs only 180hp.

@pmirp:

Wake up, VW is on the rise. Not everyone buys cars based on CR rankings even if you chose to do so. VWs sales are way up and the PAssat will sell. Lots of people like VWs styling, interiors and diesel engines. We arent in the 90s anymore, the days of people thinking that you have to buy a camry or Accord to get a sedan that will last more than 50k miles are over. The myth has been shattered and the Passat will only help VW post even larger sales gains in 2012.

The real world mileage of the sonata in this test isnt impressive at all. Hyundais continue to underachieve in real world mileage testing. On paper, the sonata is considerably more efficient than the Passat.

In real world a VW is not even on the same planet as Sonata or Camry.

When it comes to reliability, the marketplace does not recognize VW as a leader.  Reputation counts for a lot and that is where Camry has VW and Sonata beat.

VW with yesteryear engine technology, only has Camry beat by virtue of better wheels and tires.  This is a very superficial comparison.

Until the day VW proves its reliability figures year in and year out, as you state, Camry is number 1 in sales for a reason.

Also when it comes to overall numbers this year for Camry and other Japanese cars, one has to remember the limitations on capacity as result of natural disaster.  All to say, we don't know what happens next year, except, VW has zero chance of being in top 3 among mid-size cars.  

Kind of an embarrassing conclusion to your story, don't you say? Shades of Motor Trends past when you picked Honda Insight over Toyota Prius

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Comparison: 2011 Chevrolet Volt vs 2011 Nissan Leaf SL vs 2011 Toyota Prius III

Future Shock: Which is Best for You? The Highest-Mileage Hybrid, the Wonder Plug-in, or the 100-Percent EV?From the August, 2011 issue of Motor Trend / Photography by William Walker "History," quipped America's greatest philosopher, "doesn't repeat itself...but it does rhyme." Mark Twain died 101 years ago, just as the practice of a whistle and a snap of the reins to your buggy's horse was giving way to hand-cranking newfangled automobiles. I'm no Twain scholar, but it's easy to imagine him lowering one of those famous caterpillar eyebrows and raising the other as those nutty new contraptions clattered past his Connecticut home-rather like our contemporary bystanders in Newport Beach, California (though with much better eyebrow grooming), who stopped and pointed as we photographed a Prius test car next to our long-term Chevrolet Volt and Nissan Leaf. Those Twain-like glances are understandable, though; it's been a century since any of us has known anything but petroleum-burning propulsion.

What's brought us to this once-a-century inflection point? Pick your slogan: "Global warming is real!" "Imported oil endangers national security!" "Gas costs four bucks!" Whichever spikes their adrenaline level, people are starting to seriously ponder electric grid-assisted, or entirely grid-powered, automobiles (and creating some odd bedfellows along the way). What are the tradeoffs with living with a plug-in car? To find out, we compared the Prius I mentioned -- which, at a 50 combined mpg, is the most efficient "conventional" car in the country (hands down, in fact) -- against these two levels of electro-pluggability. If you're curious to dip a toe in the electrical current (with the other remaining in a familiar barrel of oil), there's the Volt, which hedges its 35-40-mile EV bet with a range-extending, 1.4-liter engine. Want to swan dive into the EV deep end? The only reason a Leaf needs to visit a gas station is to put air in its tires.

And, yep, for the first time ever, we've enlisted a Prius as a mere technological yardstick. The flip side is the implication that it's time to finally admit that the Prius is actually a mainstream (and even profitable) car. Supporting evidence: The Prius recently cracked the millionth-U.S.-sold milestone; its once-bizarre drivetrain is now discussed in commodity terms; and its nickel-metal-hydride batteries (originally so fretted about) are trying to outlive the cars they're mounted in. It's "effectively" conventional, too, in the sense that if you're oblivious to what's going under the Prius' snout, it doesn't matter. Just fill 'er-up with gas like any other car. (No need to search for any of those "exotic" diesel stations, even.) Motor Trend Rating:

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